“The Inferno” by Gustav Dore
As a warm up to the impending Mars/Saturn conjunction in Libra (which I will blog about in a couple of days), let’s chat about Mars/Saturn as a natal aspect. Specifically, the hard (oppositions, squares and conjunctions) aspects.
Mars is energy, passion, intiative. Saturn is limits. You see where this is going. It’s a tough one, especially when you’re young and have no idea why every action you attempt is blocked or frustrated. The hard aspects are cruel; I’ve seen this in the charts of people who endured excessive physical punishment, usually at the hands of their father.
But there’s an upside. These aspects becomes easier to handle with maturity (Saturn). The punishment/deprivation endured as child is the alchemical process that turns Mars’ energy into a hammer. People who get past the bone deep anger become juggernauts of determination. Physical powerhouses. Long distance runners. This energy produces endurance, in spades. The simmering anger (and sense of injustice) is always there, but if it’s harnessed into something constructive, it’s unstoppable. But there is always a sense of punishment, either self-directed or projected.
Things to realize if you have hard aspects between your Mars and Saturn :
- Others can sense that you’re angry, no matter how deeply you bury it. It makes them uneasy. Healthy release will get you further than denial.
- Consider your tendency to take the long way around in everything you do. If you’re enjoying the slog, that’s fine. But sometimes there’s a quicker route.
- As a child, you had to fight against authority. Perhaps your survival was at stake. But it’s probably not necessary to fight that same battle as an adult. Where is your energy going?
The trines and sextiles between Mars and Saturn are a bit easier to handle. The energies blend. You get the grit and determination without the frustrating blocks (most of the time).
Mars conjunct Chiron ( gemini 8th) Opposite Saturn
you’re telling me! absolutely one of the toughest challenges
Projected punishment is rather frequent. My sibling abused me throughout my upbringing. His anger was always lashed out on me, I suspect it was his Scorpio Mars. Funny enough, he’s very much like my father. He was never around really.
I have a really hard time with authority. Even if I try to appease, I never seem successful at finding a middle ground. I hate being told what to do anyways (hell I’m an Aries Moon), but irregardless it always seems like a losing battle… my presence always rubs authority the wrong way and therefore vice versa.
I honestly still have not figured out how to transform or transcend this. Everything I read about it… I’m still always scratching my head. I wish it would click because it sucks.
Chiron will intensify the punishment theme. I’d really have to see your whole chart to give a thorough answer but since Mars rules your Moon I would look at what house/planet Saturn rules and put it in the context of your feelings/safety vs. whatever Saturn rules in your chart. Also taking into account the house placements of your Moon and Saturn.
interesting! Thanks Nadia, well most of my chart is Mars-ruled, which I didn’t even consider… very very interesting!
You’re welcome.
I have a natal mars square saturn at 10 degree orb. Does that reduce the effect with a wide conjunction?
It’s still close enough to be felt. But I think the real question is can you feel it? If so, then the orb is not too wide.
How do you measure the orb, I mean @allison
mentioned her saturn and mars are at 10* degrees conjunction, please tell how to measure the orb thanks.
The rule of thumb for conjunctions is 6-8 degrees, max. This comes from what I’ve learned from other astrologers over the years plus my own experience.
Noticed this evening my son has six planets in hard opposition: Moon-Neptune, Sun-Pluto, and yes, Saturn-Mars. Saturn is 26 Scorpio in 6th H & Mars is 29 Taurus 12th H. He’s been stressed in a major way over his life, can’t get ahead, a decent job, and definitely feels obstructed. Very frustrating!…and yes, he does notice that it seems to come easier to so many others.
It sounds like the only path is to try to keep stress levels manageable & keep fighting the good fight.
You’re correct. There’s no quick fix for this one. But he’s capable of more persistence than most.
I know a man with Saturn/Mars exactly conjunct in the 5th house (Chiron is also in his 5th, ouch). I always thought that he was excessively… grounded, or realistic. Not quite pessimistic, but believing in these boundaries, you know, that can’t be moved. From what I can glean, he’s learned to believe in magic with age though.
And amazingly, he does run. 10k, almost daily.
Insightful; thanks.
With that 5th house position he could probably create something quite powerful, but it woild a lot of effort. That might be where he’s going with the magic.
hi your comment “With that 5th house position he could probably create something quite powerful, but it woild a lot of effort. That might be where he’s going with the magic.” what do you exactly mean by it, will he get successful with effort, will he be happy with that 5th house placement.
If he’s happy or successful depends very much on him.
I have been curious about Mars/Saturn since there is inconsistent astrology information about this aspect. How do the trines play out, especially in synastry. I once read that even the trine is challenging.
In synastry it would add commitment, especially on the part of the Saturn person. They would help direct the Mars person’s energies. Depending on what sign Mars was in, the Mars person would be grateful for the help or find it frustrating.
I have natal saturn square mars 1 degree orb, but i endured extreme physical punishment at the hands of my mother, it was like i was guilty everything wrong in her life and in the world and i couldn’t understand why cause i was a very quiet and calm kid…
I’m sorry to read this. Mars/Saturn can be brutally unfair.
Ahhh…this explains a lot….my natal mars/saturn sqaure. Natal Saturn retrograde in the first house squaring with Natal Mars in the 10th. Now I understand why I keep bumping into self induced sabotage whenever I make inroads to my career….It’s almost as if as soon as I make “liftoff” at a job that is important to me when somehow Mr. or Mrs. Poison enters the picture and I stumble through political crap and wind up either forced to resign or worse. I have been working on creating my own business now because I’m so sick and tired of hitting brick walls. In my history, I did suffer abuse at the hands of my dad – but it wasn’t as horrible as some others here…I got through it intact. The Mars/Saturn R Square transit is echoing my natal positions so this is interesting…but I’m rolling with it.
Starting your own business is an excellent use of this energy. You’ll be your own authority, plus if anyone has the determination to get an independent business off the ground, it’s the Mars/Saturn person.
Well, sit me down. A second son has Jupiter & Saturn conjunct 5 & 6 degrees Libra, and in opposition to Venus, Sun, and Mars conj @ 6, 8, 9 Aries (1st H). No abusers that I know of; father was strict when they were young. These are balanced, positive young men, but the doors never open easily for them. I remember this one would punch the pencil drawer if I so much as opened it at work when pregnant. So impatient! God love and keep him…
Jupiter’s influence to the mix will help…it’s always a good antidote to Saturn.
I have mars in 10th opposing my natal saturn in 3rd. My saturn is also the point of release for a yod in quincux with my natal pluto and my natal sun. It is getting a little easier at age 51, but it has been such a hard slog, like trying to move forward while a strong tough rubber band on a huge catapult is pulling me back at every move and always. I deal with it by doing the work and the hard slog trusting that that catapult will at some point fling me so far and so fast forwards that it will be nothing short of a miracle, but I honestly have to say, there have been many times when i felt i may as well give up and even with a current event involving the system (saturn) in order to be earning I have to give up the rights to my passion (mars), this ones been a toughie, but I am walking away, ethically (saturn) i will not give up on myself (sun) or the passion and joy(mars in leo) for doing my being because I fear (saturn) the occult gifts I was born so strongly to serve with (pluto in virgo 10th) will fail me.
ps the saturn mars conjunction occurs conj my 26 libra asc, making an ethical respectful stand especially against fairness by showing who I am, is I know what I am being pushed to do now. I have neptune in scorpio 1st house, which often has me unseen and even been accused of being stealth, lol but this is about revealing as harmoniously as possible, who i am , what i stand for and not betraying myself or my ethics any more, plus believing the outcome will be good this time for me
heres hoping anyway…
Saturn’s fear of failure can be strong, but you’ve got that Yod which always means a special purpose. you won’t fail…Yods are there for a reason.
My life (natal Saturn square Mars and Saturn/Venus opposition) perfectly mirrors what’s been described by this aspect. I endured severe emotional abuse as a child, experienced extreme frustrations of my ambitions as a young man, and wandered around in an undiagnosed severe depression for over a decade. I’m convinced that if I weren’t a Scorpio sun I would have succumbed to the never ending torrent of suicidal thoughts or become hopelessly addicted to drugs or alcohol.
As it was, sometime early on I had began a search for answers to life’s disappointments, discovering Jungian depth psychology at an age when most were enjoying their youth. I had wanted to pursue psychology while younger but felt I was unable to help myself, which was almost a direct voice issuing from this aspect. While in the midst of a work layoff I became determined to change my profession, so I went back to school while in my mid-thirties, overcoming a series of obstacles to obtain my doctorate in clinical psychology. Now I am a practicing psychologist applying my hard-won knowledge of the human psyche to improve the lives of my clients.
Jung has so much to say about this aspect in his approach to psychology. It invites one to sink into the depths of their psyche and work to recover the gold within. I believe it is the hardest work a person can perform and the most redeeming, not only personally but socially and for the broadening of our collective experience–an additional insight that expands our collective unconscious and so expands the entirety of humanity now and into the future.
Your experiences are a perfect example of how to use hard, natal Saturn aspects to their full potential. Thank you for sharing.
Hi Nadia.. I was reading your article and I’ve always been curious about this..I don’t know that much about astrology just the basics I’m hoping you can shed some light..I have mars saturn and pluto all in libra they are in the 2nd house..Is this a really bad thing in my chart?…the rest is sun in cancer moon in scorpio venus gemini mercury gemini jupiter scorpio
No planet combinations are inherently bad. Mars/Saturn and Pluto in the 2nd House might make you more concerned with establishing a firm base of power for yourself, but beyond that I’d have to analyze your chart to get the full story.
I read other articles on this topic. My Mars/Saturn opposition is compounded by Mars’ conjunction to Mercury (11th house) and Saturn’s conjunction with Pluto (5th house). This horrible bunch of oppositions plays out primarily in my romantic (5th) relationships. Oppositions get projected onto others, as I understand them, or play out in relationships.
It is true that whenever I want to accomplish something, I feel thwarted. I also feel that everyone else has it easier than I do. Consequently, I have taken the easy way out in life and have really accomplished nothing, despite all the talents I have. I’ve quite simply given up; I shun hard work and prefer to dream about doing things (Mars trine Neptune).
It’s hard to maintain motivation with this aspect, and for some it may even be impossible (the success story above involved a Scorpio Sun; I don’t have a Sun sign with nearly as much staying power).
Take this as a cop-out story for someone with this aspect. I abhor struggle, and failure, so I avoid trying entirely.
While I hear you, remember that the flip side of Mars/Saturn is the potential to overcome tremendous odds. It’s your choice what you do with this energy, but I’m just sayin’…
I have the exact same configuration…every planet you mentioned in exactly the same aspects but the houses are different unless you relocate the chart. My story is the opposite of yours. Struggling harder in many areas than anyone I’ve met and getting less compared to two thirds of people. And there really is the influence of unfavorable circumstances, social millieu, and totally random monsters and fires that have only one purpose in mind, to kick down my door and burn down my house. Over the years the things that helped is cultivating a sense of humor and detaching from the outcomes while stubbornly persisting in what many consider lost wars to the point of lunacy and delusion(neptune helps big time here). If you consider yourself already dead, then you know they can’t kill you twice. Curiously people that had the mars/saturn aspect past and present include Michael Jordan, MLK Jr., and Oliver Cromwell to name a few.
Oh thank you for this post. I thought I was going crazy. I am bullied at work, have lost so many jobs even though I work very hard, have no friends because they always seem to be in competition with me or just plain unhelpful, and abused by my parents when I was young, and punished for doing better than my siblings in school. I also have Pluto conjuct the sun, trine Saturn, so everyone sees me as competition as well.
Vedic astrologers suggest red coral for this aspect, but I am working on balancing my chakras and meditation to overcome this.
You’re welcome. Sun/Pluto will certainly arouse much opposition from others as well (as you’ve noted). Best thing you can do is realize the tremendous power you have.
Interestingly, my brother had both of these same aspects in his chart, sun/plutleo conjunction and mars/saturn square but in different houses. He did not encounter the same opposition from people as I have, and was generally very well liked, although not a nice person, IMHO. He passed away though.
I wonder what his Ascendent was…and if he had any strong Neptune (illusion) in his chart.
It’s funny but amazingly coincides with my life. To add I had obstructions and have virtually taken out ‘luck’ out of the equation. Sat-mars combination along with venus in Taurus for capricorn rising. I have seen obstruction for all efforts which are generally in abundance from family to colleagues. Even though I am not bullied at work It’s like everyone keeps off me. I am great at bringing unity in a place. Lol. Within 1 or 2 days a group starts to operate against. However the positive is a very strong mind. Frankly I don t care about these groups. [Why can t they function individually?] Also I learnt about this combination when I was around 20 when nothing really worked for a decade or so. But now I have come up with ideas to trigger my mars every now and then. I use focus, optimism, strategy and determination as my weapons to thwart any competition. I have written books and work in a good position. I also have started using a red coral from this tuesday. Don t know yet how good it would be. Thought it would be useful for any youngsters with this combo.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I should add that I have Mars in the 10th square Saturn in the 2nd, wwih an 8 degree orb. I also have sun conjunct Pluto in the ninth trine Saturn, but my sun squares my ascendant, which is also conjunct with Jupiter. Lots of friction from other people trying to thwart me or impose their will on me.
My Saturn opposes your Mars, squares your natal Jupiter – Dec 2012 to early Oct 2013
Mars in tauras Saturn is scropio and Jupiter aqu
I haven’t read much at all about sexual problems with this aspect but:
The man I am involved with has a tight square (1st house sag saturn, 10th house virgo mars). Mars rules his 5th house, saturn his 2nd. His sexual expression is rather crude- he is an artless lover, and he very often has “performance” issues.
Another example: A friend of mine was involved with a man who has a tight opposition. She told me this person has frequent sexual performance (and anger) issues too.
Also, I’ve seen my guy turn into a complete rude jerk around crowds of people – and in traffic. The very idea someone may get ahead of him in a line or a lane just about makes his head explode.
In other ways he is a nice, caring person. but honestly the mars-saturn issues keep me from wanting to get get very close or make a commitment.
Absolutely, this aspect can be an indicator of impotence and lack of finesse. Fear is usually at the root of these issues, although the man in question may never admit it (Mars/Saturn does not lend itself to vulnerability). As for your guy’s rudeness, this is where Mars/Saturn becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Others (including you) don’t react favourably to his behaviour.
Thanks, Nadia. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “self-fulfilling prophecy.” Do you mean he possibly has an “everyone’s agenda is to stifle or stop me” kind of chip on his shoulder, and so with that attitude of his, people in fact do try and stop him- ?
If so you’re absolutely right.
We were at an airport recently, and he became incensed that TSA was selecting people at random into a newly-opened screening lane but not us. Though our plane had been delayed so we had a few hours to kill at the airport, he became so hostile with TSA agents for letting some people ahead of us, three TSA agents surrounded him and seemed to do a quick assessment of Mr. Angry Guy- I think we were nearly thrown out of the airport.
Exactly…he expects the worst from people so they give it to him.
Hmm.. I wonder whether the sexual side of this aspect operates the same way the shoulder chip does: He expects I’ll react negatively because the sex is lousy, so- sex is lousy. ? He’s 53 years old so I’m sure I’m not the first to experience this with him. He sometimes blames his age, but it’s not a age thing, I believe it’s psychological/emotional. If I may be somewhat graphic, sex always goes one of two ways with him: He either “arrives” out of no where, long before I’m anywhere near there; or- the slightest change or pause will cause him to “limp out” and not bounce back. Very frustrating. I’ve been an astrology student for decades and I’ve read almost nothing about this.
Yes, the sexual aspect works in the same way. Performance (Mars) anxiety (Saturn). It all goes back to his relationship with his body.
I have Mars(8deg49′) closely conjuncting Saturn(7deg14′) in the 9th house for an Aries ascendant. Jupiter is present in the Ascendant. I can relate a lot to what you have described. Until I was 14 yrs old, receiving physical punishment from father (Saturn aspect on Sun) was like a daily chore. Even though we are like best friends now those memories still remain under the surface.
Thank you for sharing this. Jupiter probably helped to keep you afloat, give you a sense that there were better things on the horizon (and enables you to be friends with your father now).
This is really interesting! I have Sun conj ASC & Pluto in 1st with a square to Saturn in the 10th and was on the receiving end of much more harsh physical discipline as well as random violent attacks than either of my two sisters who grew up in the same household. But this petered out once I passed adolescence. I have Mars sextile Saturn so I have not has sexual problems described but am a workhorse and do have stamina that I think could kill a guy that’s not an athlete with some earth or Pluto energy (Mars in Taurus in 8th heh heh.)
The one guy I’ve every been with that has severe sexual anxiety I did look up and sure enough, Mars/Saturn square. He was very outgoing socially so I was surprised when this happened. I did date one other person who had Mars sextile Venus both inconjunct to Saturn and while he did have a lot of charisma, I could tell there was some anxiety there and definitely a problem maintaining relationships. His Mars/Venus midpoint was exactly opposite my Venus and we had a lot of eros/mars and 8th house overlays to compensate. Once he got used to me, it was a very good connection but I did continue to sense a bit of underlying anxiety there. I did not ever experience his temper, rather, I know he said women would get angry with him and he would just kind of disassociate or “avoid” if things weren’t running smoothly which I sure just exacerbates the problem.
An a random note, this puppy I just took in who was born in August during the 2012 Mars/Saturn conjunction in Libra is the sweetest animal but occasionally prone to random bits of temper that were actually quite scary at first. He is a lab/pitbull mix and I early on, I was frightened he might snap. After having him for a while, I am not longer worried but when he loses his temper, it is from being disciplined which he takes very badly and resembles exactly a child’s temper tantrum rooted in frustration where he feels thwarted. I actually cast a chart for him b/c I was so puzzled by his behavior and this seems to be the one challenging aspect as well as the Universal Uranus/Pluto square everyone is experiencing. Everyone just love this dog – people stop me constantly and he is lavished with love – but I have noticed occasionally that other dogs ignore or bully him and he acts very submissive – he just wants to loved/accepted. He is very high energy and does require a lot of exercise and positive affirmation which I feel helps. He was dumped/abandoned as a puppy. Fascinating to see this play out in the animal kingdom as well.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing all that. Animals can certainly manifest astrological energy (although I’ve never done a chart for one).
The man you describe with Mars/Venus inconjunct Saturn is a great example of those energies being projected outwards (women getting angry with him). If someone doesn’t own their energies, they will be reflected back to them by other people.
I have mars, Saturn, and Pluto in my Libra second house, all retrograde. Venus is in my seventh house Pisces. My sun is in eighth house Aires, loosely conjunct with mercury in Taurus. My sun and mercury are in opposition with both my retro Pluto and retro Saturn in my second house Libra. It feels like there are so many blocks in my way, although I have to be honest enough to say some of them are from not believing in my own worth. Will someone please shed some insight, wisdom, guidance, or advice?
2nd House is about self-worth/values. Saturn in 2nd House usually has a deep fear that there is not enough of something. So you need to look at what you feel there isn’t enough of, and how you can provide that for yourself (Saturn in the 2nd wants to you build your own solid foundations).
I have mars and saturn in 5th house of libra…. how does that effect me
The 5th House is the house of sun, games, flirtations and hobbies. Creativity and what makes you feel special. Mars/Saturn in this house suggests that you have to “work” for all these things, and don’t take them casually.
I have Mars 2nd/Cancer opposition Saturn 8th/Aquarius. My father was a volatile individual and my childhood was filled with belt beatings and his loud, angry voice. One especially memorable time, he whipped me with an extension cord.
I also have Pluto 4th/Virgo conjunct IC. Interesting. I knew from a very young age that I was the “black sheep” of the family. Admittedly I still feel victimized and self-pitying when I think of certain parts of my childhood… never really thought to try to channel that energy elsewhere. I’m glad I read this today. I really rather appreciate your acknowledgement of the injustice that can be an expression of this placement.
Thank you for sharing this extremely painful part of your childhood. I wish you much hope on your journey towards healing. Know that with natal Pluto in the 4th, your path forward lies with the Pluto polarity point…in your 10th House (career, future goals).